Since publishing this post we have become aware of a fund that has been set up to support those left behind by James’ tragic passing. Contributions to a fund in his name can be made by deposit into the following account:
- BSB: 032-000
- Account: 606-770
- Name: The James Plummer Fund
- Bank: Westpac Banking Corporation
- Address: 341 George Street Sydney NSW 2000
THIS STORY IS TRAGIC, RATHER THAN FUNNY OR LIGHTHEARTED
We received the following anonymous comments from a Henry Davis York spy last week:
What is happening at Henry Davis York to make a solicitor (only know his first name was James) jump off the building at lunch time and kill himself? And why is no one talking about this? Depression in the profession is out of control and there are reasons for it! We are overworked, underpaid and undervalued.
If the consequences of such treatment are not being given air time, no firm will ever fell compelled to change their practices. I understand the family’s need for privacy but shoving these issues under the carpet will only exacerbate the problem.
Since receiving that email, Firm Spy telephoned Henry Davis York’s communications manager, Robyn Tolhurst, for comment. She hung up on us. We then sent the following email to HDY’s managing partner Sharon Cook:
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Request for comment
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:28:03 -0400
From: <news@firmspy.com>
To: <sharon_cook@hdy.com.au>Sharon,
we just phoned your media contact who hung up on us because we declined to divulge our names. We are requesting comment from the firm on James’ suicide a couple of weeks ago.
How is your firm addressing depression and mental issues in the workplace?
Firm Spy
No response has been forthcoming. Meanwhile, our sources from within the AFR Legal Affairs team have since told us that Sharon Cook arranged an interview with AFR editor James Eyers to tell the “firm’s side” of this tragic suicide story.
We don’t intend to use this post as a means to specifically vilify HDY for implementing what we regard as a depression-inducing profit-maximisation ethos. However, we think it is a timely juncture to encourage all corporate firms, including HDY, to reflect on what it is that they are doing which is causing such rife depression within the industry.
In our own view, part of the real underlying issue is the partnership mentality that “because I suffered through it, so must those behind me”. No, just because you as partners once suffered through the capitalist maze of ungodly hours, sacrficing friends and social events, being mistreated and downtrodden, being “underpaid and undervalued” in order to reach your corporate zenith doesn’t mean that all who follow you must be subjected to the same.
Facilitate change. Don’t be a relic of the past.
When Cook recently became Managing Partner of HDY, she made the following comments to Lawyers Weekly:
I think HDY is recognised in the market in three areas, and they’re the strengths that I will play to… the third is that we are an employer of choice. They’re the three strengths that I will be capitalising on as managing partner… [T]he HDY culture … is that we genuinely care about and respect and enjoy working with each other.
Meanwhile, in the firm’s brochure to aspiring graduates, Cook makes the following comments:
what distinguishes firms is their culture. It’s difficult to articulate, but it’s core to who they are and to determining the right fit for you. One thing you will notice about Henry Davis York is that people are at the centre of everything we do… [W]e are absolutely committed to excellence in how we treat and nurture our staff and how we help them develop the highest quality skills and expertise.
We encourage HDY and all firms to place the mental welfare of staff centermost in their corporate strategies. This death and the suicide of Tristan Jespon should be an industry turning point.
If you feel depressed, tell someone. If you feel you can’t speak to anyone you know, call someone you don’t, like these guys.
Firm Spy.
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Bordering on poor taste firm spy. Given that the reasons behind his depression are unclear I think you are crossing a fine line in using this tragic situation as a means to run a story to show that lawyers are overworked.
Perhaps not knowing the reasons behind the gentleman’s depression is the reason Firm Spy declined to ‘specifically vilify’ henry Davis York.
This issue needs attention across the industry. Thanks FS for reporting on it
There’s absolutely no way to know if firm culture played a role in James’ death. It might, or might not – it’s a cheap shot to jump to conclusions.
What we can be sure about: an employee suicide is a real tragedy. An employee death (even if not a suicide) will profoundly impact any workplace and its managers. Suicide has complex causes and allegations of blame can be profoundly damaging to those left behind.
And don’t forget that HDY will have good reasons to keep mum – beyond protecting its own interests, and those of its staff. Not least to protect and respect the family, friends and memory of James.
We can’t know why James decided to end his life and the reasons underlying his depression, but the fact it occurred during work hours and from HDY’s office tower suggests to me that there is at least some part that is related to his employer.
I think Firm Spy has handled this story with far more than its usual recklessness. It has twice contacted the firm for comment.
This is a pressing industry issue and I’m glad Firm Spy has raised it.
For many years as a junior lawyer I too suffered from depression. I might add that I believe it was due in no small part to the working conditions of my old firm. Perhaps I was predisposed to depression and the culture of the firm just brought it out of me. Or perhaps it was the culture alone that caused it.
Whatever the cause, one suicide is one too many. Firm Spy is right – partners should distinguish themselves by creating a better culture than the one they suffered through. Who knows, it could save lives.
Light writes “We can’t know why James decided to end his life and the reasons underlying his depression, but the fact it occurred during work hours and from HDY’s office tower suggests to me that there is at least some part that is related to his employer.”
I think this is a reasonable conclusion.
And for goodness sake I don’t think FS is doing anything wrong. Critical issues can’t be swept under the carpet – that’s wrong.
Thank you FS for discussing this issue. It is too often hushed up.
I used to work at a top tier firm. I have a family history of depression, and the culture and pressure of the firm placed huge strain on me. I wasn’t the only one – whilst working there I saw numerous colleagues suffer from depression or breakdowns.
I now work at a boutique law firm with a totally different culture. At the time I left the top tier firm, people make joking comments about me “putting myself out to pasture” by voluntarily leaving the top tier. But I couldn’t be happier in my boutique “pasture”. The work is good quality, the work hours reasonable and the culture supportive rather than competitive. The change of firm culture has lead to a huge increase in my overall happiness and all symptoms of depression are gone.
Top tier firms (and others with similar cultures) should all be encouraged to address the issue of pressure, stress and depression. Hosting an annual “Depression in the Law” health seminar isn’t enough. Partners need to be aware of these issues and implement appropriate systems in their day to day management of their teams. Through culture change, employees can be happier, healthier and more productive. Hopefully this will help to reduce the incidence of depression and breakdowns in the industry.
Hang on a min. Even if this did happen, isn’t it a little premature and unfair to insinuate that the suicide was driven by a work related issue?
I enjoy reading this site but the handling of such a sensitive issue in this instance seems unacceptable to me.
Loz, this is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. FS is reporting what the firm source said. FS has given the firm multiple opportunities to comment, and they have not.
Excellent comment, A, we agree with everything you said. I left a top tier firm too. Its just not worth it.
I can’t believe you expect sensitive and private information to be divulged without identifying yourself. The Law Society has been sending out information for help with depression for at least a couple of years. It is a big problem in our profession and you don’t have to work for a brand name city firm to be overworked, undervalued or underpaid. Personally I have no experience working for city firms but there is alot more to depression in our profession than an employer. I can change my employer but I can’t change my expectations or dealing with other people’s problems and money nor can I pick and choose my clients if I am employed.
How terribly tragic. Overwork and stress can contribute to depression, and our macho drinking culture does not help.
I love the comment from A. about people at his/her top tier* firm denegrating boutique firms! After 10 years in the profession my advice to all Grads is to avoid the big firms for the plague they are!
*top tier – self proclaimed, and compared to what? longer hours, more stress, treated like shit, no work life balance, not much more pay… doesn’t sound top tier to me!
This is absolutely tragic and the amount of comments on here trying to place the blame on top tier firms is ridiculous. It is an incredibly wrong time to point it out but HDY is far from top tier and is a smallish mid-tier firm. Let’s just have a little perspective and not try and generalise and blame some firms based purely on size. Clearly, as this evidences, it is a profession wide problem.
When I first read the article I was a bit worried it might overstep the mark, but by the time I finished it and reflected on it I think it was balanced and an important contribution to an important issue.
I worked in a large firm and there were times I was depressed, though I never sough help. I have absolutely no doubt that it was due to the nature of the large firm. People can be left to work non-stop for ridiculous periods without sleep (I have seen people go in excess of 48 hours). You are perceived as nothing more than a profit centre to support a leverage model. Partners will go home in the afternoon and couldn’t care less that staff may be working through to morning. Then every excuse under the sun is deployed as to why you shouldn’t be paid more.
I have also seen colleagues who I think have been suffering from depression for the same reasons.
The handing out of leaflets / pinning up osters re mental health by large firms is window dressing that achieves nothing and does not address the problem which is the nature of the large firm environment itself and the way it commoditises people. Some will say if you don’t like it leave. That is naive and an overly simplistic response.
I strongly believe that this is an important issue and that the root problem is the way large firms treat staff. I think FS has done well to highlight this.
I remember the guy from All Saints jumped off the Swisotel last year. I don’t think it was reasonable to conclude that it was the hotels fault.
Loz,
Mark Priestley didn’t work at Swisotel.
Well done FirmSpy, I think you’ve raised an important issue and handled it in a mature manner. Thank you.
I was pushed to the point where I nearly committed suicide rather than set foot again in the law firm I had worked for years. Prior to that point I had never suffered from depression. When you are in that state of mind you forget all about the articles on depression and the services available to help you. It is the kind words/ actions of friends, family and strangers, no matter how tiny that make all the difference.
None of that kindness came from the law firm – they just did everything they could to make it worse. It shocks me that such a culture/ people exist. I now know that I was just one in a long line. To me that is not comforting but disturbing.
The prevention of suicide/ depression in the legal profession needs to target the cause. All too often, this is the culture of the law firm. The problem is that there is no way of changing this. There is no way of making a complaint so law firms can continue to turn a blind eye to what is going on around them. The Law Society does not want to know.(If they did, they might be able to identify the common features). Suicide can feel like the only option to take back the power imbalance. This might sound silly, but it is how I felt at the time. Luckily, I am no longer in that state of mind.
James’ death was noted in James Eyers’ article in the AFR. Contributions to a fund in his name can be made by deposit into the following account:
BSB 032-000
Account 606-770
Name The James Plummer Fund
Bank Westpac Banking Corporation
Address 341 George Street Sydney NSW 2000
James, fella – we miss you. You’re divine.
As John A said “I can’t believe you expect sensitive and private information to be divulged without identifying yourself” Absolutely – Firm Spy you have got to be kidding? Stick to the gossip because you obviously have no scruples. Don’t pretend to be journalists as even they have more ethics.
As for this suicide being work related again you have no idea. Just because it happened in the HDY tower? Conversely if it hadn’t happen at work would you say it couldn’t have been work related?
Like I said, stick to gossip and leave the journalism to the professionals (if you can call them that)
Thank you for reporting on the issue. Suicides don’t get reported – I always assumed this was for privacy reasons but recently learned that the main motivator is to avoid copycat incidents.
Suicide is a tragic consequence of mental illness but I strongly believe that by sweeping it under the carpet we’re doing more harm than good.
Depression is a manageable illness. Get help!
If it is a matter of fact that this poor bloke was depressed then it should be of little consequence that working for HDY was a (or the) cause.
What does matter is that help is available to people to those that need it. In this situation it does not appear that this was the case. Help should be on offer from the firm irrespective of the cause. Sadly, it seems that few firms are prepared to deal with this illness let alone recognise the prevalence of it within the profession.
People should not be arguing over whether or not HDY was the cause. They should be arguing over whether HDY was sufficiently prepared to deal with staff suffering from such an illness.
I am an HDY employee and I have been with the firm since well before James died.
Your ‘article’ is uninformed. It also adds nothing to the pool of understanding about depression, its causes or its treatments.
You should amend your article (not just in a post at the end of the ShareThis section) to report that a true HDY spy can reliably vouch the following.
* Like most lawyers nowadays, HDY people are very aware of the high rates of anxiety and depression in the legal profession and amongst law students.
* From what I have seen, the partners and HR team go to great lengths to care for employees who are suffering depression. I am aware that the firm has provided professional psychological assistance and ensured that sufferers were getting quality specialist medical treatment, and that this was the case for James.
* James’ family told the firm that James suffered depression before he came to HDY and that HDY could do no more than we did to help him. James had often told his parents how good the firm was to him.
In short, I believe the firm did everything it could do, and James was doing everything he could to get better.
Instead of lambasting all “top tier” and city firms, it would be more useful to talk about the various ways in which people have found their path to recovery. This includes finding the right mix of lifestyle changes and treatment options for you, acknowledging all the dimensions of this illness and the different ways in which different individuals need to care for themselves. There is no single magic bullet.
I know many firms are grappling with this issue and, like HDY, offer unlimited work arrangements and leave options to assist sufferers to recover their health and wellbeing. If your firm doesn’t, then let your feet do the talking because there are good people in our profession who just want to end the suffering of those with this illness and help them get back to a fulfilling life and career.
The legal profession has the highest incidences of depression and suicide.
Almost every lawyer I know is unhappy because of their job, namely, the way they are being treated.
We are people – we are not robots, cogs or consumables – to be treated like slaves, disrespected, bullied, unappreciated, used up, burnt out and then dumped – and then told that we just couldn’t cut it (its our fault that we couldn’t meet the unrealistic expectations of our employers and endure the horrible conditions).
These days everything is about the bottom line – why employ more people and pay more money when you can squeeze more work out of the people you have without paying them anymore? in fact, why not just cut jobs and then redistribute the work amongst the remaining and squeeze a bit more? that will increase profit – then give people shitty performance reviews so that you can justify refusing to pay them more even though they’re working harder and billing more than ever before.
If you try to cut back to look after yourself, or because you want to do things other then work (!) then you’re underproducing and will be managed out.
But hey, its nothing personal – its not your life – its just business!
I think its time lawyers form a union and demand decent working conditions.
I do no know James or anything about HDY firm culture and I deeply sympathise with his friends and family for their loss.
However, I do not think we can dismiss the location AND time of day he chose to tragically end his life.
The place he chose to end his life was jumping off the top of his place of employment, rather than at home or some other private location.
People do not commit suicide on a whim; it is a very tragic and desperate act and there is a message that can be implied by the location he chose to die.
I think it is important to talk about what is causing solicitors to have one of the highest rates of depression among professionals and that James’ act should not be dismissed.
An actual employee of HDY.
I’m betting that you’re not a fee earner? Part of management?
hey lawyers,
I knew James personally. He was a great guy from an amazing family. His sister died of cancer when she was 23 – she was truly an amazing wonderful person (she had almost 1000 people at her funeral). Grief hits people in funny ways. RIP.
It is such a tragedy….
We know, as has been displayed by the various above postings that the rate of depression is very high in the legal profession. Law Firms and those that work in these need to be aware of this. I wonder whether personalities that are potentially prone to depression work in such areas as well – perfectionists, obsessive compulsives (of which I am one! and am a qualified and have worked in a medium size law firm). The Legal industry and firms need to take some ownership of this issue and address it. I must say my experience in a medium sized law firm was negative and far from supportive.
I have been advised that the chances of a suicide occuring can actually increase after a persons medication is changed. This is known within the medical profession. Doctors, Employers and of course depression sufferers need to be made aware of this and during this initial period of change the sufferer should be monitored and off work or on light duties.
I posted the above link 20/10 at 3.10 (but not the other ‘Anon’ posts).
Just to clarify that what I set out in the last paragraph is what I have been advised in relation to bypolar sufferers who’s medication is changed.
I pray that some good can come out of this tragedy. RIP