In the last few days the firm has been served with a statement of claim from solicitors representing Tracey, and a copy of her complaint to the Queensland Anti-Discrimination Commission. These claims are a transparent attempt by Tracey to pressure us to pay unjustified compensation.
We will present evidence in these forums that shows our decision to terminate Tracey’s employment was the only course of action available to us, after her refusal to comply with my specific and reasonable direction to seek clearance from a doctor that she was fit for work.
We thought readers might like to follow proceedings at http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esearching/Filedetails.aspx?Location=BRISB&Court=Supre&Filenumber=3017/11
It’s an interesting one. On the one hand, Mr Schiffman and the BDO partnership claim that Ms Murray’s refusal to provide “clearance from a doctor that she was fit for work” warranted her termination. Our sources indicate Ms Murray indeed offered to get a clearence from her GP, but BDO requested she attend a psychiatric evaluation and waive her right to doctor/patient confidentiality to allow someone from BDO to discuss her behaviour with the psychiatrist. We understand that Ms Murray claims that such a request was unreasonable in the circumstances and breached her entitlement to patient-doctor confientiality.
We contacted Ms Murray about the dispute. She told us:
In requiring me to go to a psychiatrist and not my GP or a doctor and to also waive my right to doctor/patient confidentiality so that they could discuss with the psychiatrist ways to modify my behaviour, BDO is clearly indicating I had a mental health issue, not a health issue. When I refused their direction, they sacked me. BDO cliams that they have the right to sack any partner, without pthe need to provide cause or reason. If this was the case, why would anyone want to join BDO as a Partner?
Having been terminated, Ms Murray took her complaint to the Anti-Discrimination Commission of Queensland, alleging discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived impairment. What do you think? While asking for access to an individual’s medical info might be a fair request, what about requiring them to attend a psychiatrist and waive their right to doctor/patient confidentiality? .. fair request?
We’re informed that the Commissioner hearing the dispute thinks there is enough of a case to warrant further investigation of the issue. BDO had asked the Commissioner to dismiss Ms Murray’s claims on the basis that they were:
vexacious, lacking substance and without merit or fabricated
We understand that underpinning BDO’s claim is a clause in Ms Murray’s employment contract which permits the termination on paying out of three months in lieu of a notice period, which they exercised when she refused to follow their directions. We understand that in all proceedings, BDO claims they acted reasonably in requiring Murray to attend a psychiatrist, claiming that, in the past, another Partner had been directed to go to a Psychiatrist for an extended period of time, with an outcome that was satisfactory for all parties.
Well, the Commissioner last week ruled against BDO and will soon rule on whether the second proceeding should be dismissed. Before making the ruling, the Commissioner had ordered the parties to undertake a compulsory mediation which occurred on 28 September. BDO attended with their lawyers, confronting the solitary, unrepresented figure of Tracey Murray. Unsurprisingly, the mediation failed.
Meanwhile, we contacted Ms Murray, who had the following to say in an email to FS:
I dedicated 6 years of my life building up the R&D practice at BDO, and BDO claim they can sack me without cause or reason. I have tried to settle this issue outside the legal system, but BDO refused to attend the initial mediation, so the only course of action available to me was via the legal system. By dragging this process out, I think BDO is trying to wear me down both emotionally and financially. I am looking for BDO to exercise a bit of leadership here, for the sake of everyone involved. it’s been the wost 6 months of my life and I just want to put this behind me and move on.
We certainly hope for the sake of Ms Murray and her mental welfare that BDO takes a sensible approach to the resolution of this dispute. We’re sure our readers agree.
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BD-owned. Eagerly waiting spin doctoring from “Australia’s 5th largest accounting firm” and tampering of voting on comments.
I believe that an employer should be able to deal with employees as they seem fit. If an employee doesn’t fit in with the management style of the business, they should have the right to move them on. It’s not a big deal so get over it.
Employer rights – what a joke – do you seriously think we live in a society that lets employers sack their employees (much less Partners !) for any reason they choose.
What if the “management style” of the business was to persecute a minority, would it be acceptable for an employee to be sacked for not adhering to this policy ?
Wake up !
so what if she did have a mental health issue? It is a pity that Tracey saw fit to unfavourably distinguish a “mental health” issue from a (general) health issue when corresponding with Firm Spy.
It doesn’t do anything to de-stigmatise the raised eyebrow approach that society seems to take toward those who genuinely do suffer mental health issues.
If this is how they treat their partners, I wonder how they treat their staff.
@Ex BDO. I think anyone who operates at a Partner or senior level within a law or accounting firm is challenged from time to time with mental health issues. I think the problem with BDO is that they treat ‘non conformist’ as having a mental health issue, which most professionals would be rightly affronted by.
Look at BDO’s stats. Every laterally hired Partners and most female Partners have left within a short period of time, because BDO can’t accommodate their different approach to management and ideas. Apart from Tracey Murray, BDO has made another female partner attend psychiatric sessions, but she had a obvious anerexic condition and I understand BDO made such sessions compulsory if she wanted to make Partner.
Our HR guide (Big 4) says a request for a medical clearance from a GP is ok ( if explained with the reasons for the request, which shoukd have a reasonable basis) and a specialist should
only be involved in the case of a pre existing injury or health issue.
It is well established in Australian employment law that employers can ask their employees to submit to a medical and that the results be published to the employer. I can’t see why partnership should be any different and I suspect this person will find that out in not too long.
IF the commissioner found anything different, I suspect BDO will simply take the matter to a sensible court to get a sensible answer.
Comments mafe by ‘no case’ are scary. No doubt ‘ no case’ is a BDO Partner supporting the decisions his/het firm had made regarding termination of an employer. Sacking a Partner without a good reason, especially a female partner sounds sus. Can someone please confirm if an employer is allowed to require an employee to attend a medical examination for any reason. What if I was asked to go to a plastic surgen to look at lap band surgery, because the partners thought I was fat? Can they do that????? Because that is what the partners at BDO appear to be suggesting!!!!
BDO’s got past form with this particular ‘management’ technique. They made another female partner attend a psychiatrist for a while, telling her she wouldn’t be considered for Partner if she didn’t attend.
Good reasoning ‘no case’. Hack on the anti discrimination commissioner when the decision goes against you and force the issue into the legal system.
On the assumption that you are a BDO partner, sounds like you are a bunch of pri.ks to work for.
Based on this arrogance, I for one hope you get your arses handed to you
Does anyone know what she did to warrant being asked to attend a psychiatric assessment? I’ve gone through my employment contract and I don’t think I can be asked to attend a psych, but I want to know in what circumstances the Partners can make such a request?
I agree with every attempt to try and destigmatise mental health issues, as it is a real issue amongst the legal (and presumably accounting profession).
If I am reading this case correctly, I think Murray distinguished mental health from just health issues, to call into question the reasonableness of BDO’s initial request, which was to see a psychiatrist and apparently waive doctor-patient confidentiality.
In my humble opinion, I think she has cause to question BDO’s actions.
I am not a BDO partner, and I do not act for BDO. I do not care if you believe me or not, but there is well established case law in Australia that in reasonable circumstances an employer can ask an employee to sit for a medical, particularly if there are doubts about their ability to perform the inherent requirements of the role or their ability to perform the role without endangering their safety or the safety of others. Since (taking this article at face value) those seem to be the concerns BDO had, they seem to be on solid ground. They might throw some $ at her to make her go away, but that just shows how rotten the system is, not that they had done anything wrong. This country is full of pathetic whingers who should just get on with life, rather than suing people who realise they are pathetic and move them on.
@Uncertain- it doesn’t need to be an express term of your contract. It is implied by law.
@No case – as you are not at BDO you will be unware that is it an express term in our contract.
@uncertain – There is a clause in our contracts that state BDO “may request that you undergo an examination by a medical practitioner”. Apparently BDO interprets the phrase ‘may request’ as ‘has an absolute power to force you to do something’, (specifically undergo a series of examination by a psychiatrist, to waive your right to doctor/patient confidentiality so that Tony can share this information with anyone at BDO he wants to and to fire you on the spot if you refuse)
I heard a rumour that yesterday the anti discrimination commission dismissed BDO’s attempt to knock out the ‘discrimination on the basis on gender’ action from Tracey. Apparently there is sufficient smoke to suggest a fire. BDO losses second round!
Fs – you have contacted Tracey previously – any truth to the rumour?
This charade will go on and on. BDO is not going to pander to these claims and settle. The case will be heard through actual legal channels (not some public service puppet) and BDO will be vindicated. Employers have rights and Murray failed to act as reasonably directed and was sacked as a consequence of her failure to abide by a lawful direction.
End of story people.
Heh @ BDO gimps manning up on this website. BDO will be torn a new one by the time this is over.
Out of curiosity, what does a Norton Rose parnter charge out at?
Tracey was the only partner that genuinely cared for her staff. The little “big boys” felt threatened by her because she stood up for herself and her staff.
Ultimately they got rid of her because she had the most profitable segment of the tax division – which she worked very hard to build. More $, less headaches and a way to increase their share. Heaven forbid they keep a partner that actually knew a thing or two. The only person suffering a mental illness is the tax partner-in-charge.
Just so everyone is aware, Tracey did not instigate the actions against BDO without just cause.
From what I understand (ie my interpretation of what I have heard from Tracey), BDO sacked her without reasonable cause. you should see the examples of behaviour BDO are citing as cause for concern – we’d all be in the loony house if there reasons are found to be reasonable.
After they sacked her, they also with held her working capital (nearly half a million dollars) and are claiming an additional $200k as repayment of the payment she received from the incorporation process, the very ‘deal’ she voted against because it significantly prejudiced the younger Partner’s ability to service the debt and pension obligations of the firm.
In these circumstances, and based on the very thin grounds BDO cited for sacking her, I don’t think Tracey had any other cause of action available to her. She has a family, with a daughter still in primary school. In the same sitauation, most people would do the same.
Chin up Muzza, you have a good heart and justice will prevail.
I agree with the comments made by ‘Mental Illness Masquerade’.
I have worked in Tracey’s team (at Pdubs) and she was tough but fair. You always knew where you stood with her, she was the first to praise good work, but she was also the first to tell you if your work was crap and tell you what you needed to do to produce the highest possible results for the clients. If you weren’t up to the job or were underperforming, she’d give you a few chances, then take action and move you on.
We knew we were a high performing team and we only wanted good performers in the team. People who were moved on probably have bad feelings about Tracey, but that’s understandable. No one wants to be told that they are not perfect and they are under performing!!!
Tracey’s failure is I think she cares too much about her team and the people around her, something that is seen as a weakness in the accounting professional services world. She is strong willed and speaks her mind, and leaves people in no doubt when she doesn’t agree with them. These traits are career suicide and perhaps even lunacy in a profession that rewards kowtowing and yes men.
Oooh it sounds like Tracey Murray is still adept at adopting the best of everybody else’s personality. Hopefully the sympathy garnered for her will help her settle down well to the role of house mum and stay out of f***ing up everybody else’s business.
Given their level of anger, Sounds like @ODDM was one of the under performers moved on by TM.
Let it go and you’ll feel better.
What I don’t understand from a employee management point of view is why BDO (presumably Tony Schiffman) sent her to a psychiatrist in the first instance. SOP is to send staff to a GP who, if necessary, will refer employees to a specialist.
She must have been talking to little green men to warrant such drastic action. BDO might have had no options.
Sour Grapes, you’re a poor judge of any person’s performance let alone of their level of anger. However, I’m glad you have time to analyze my stuff, hope you never get paid for it, now go back to sleep.
R&D at BDO was a joke…about excess baggage. Which particular clients did Tracey and other R&D directors bring in? What did R&D do for clients?
They’re a bunch of scammers, one of whom is currently abusing legal processes for $$.
Jesus! BDO are a group of people with over-inflated sense of self worth gained through the misuse of professional knowledge and the misuse of their spot on the learning curve to abuse people that they have near-zero connection to. Pull up your zip and keep it in the company you B grade stars.
FS – do you know people at BDO? It’s nice that BDO get to engage with FS and to influence the comments on this website…bunch of charlatans. How are you skewing the history of independence at FS?
Hi Greg T.
To answer your question, clients that Tracey personally won for BDO (and remember that she set up BDO’s R&D practice from scratch) included the world’s largest agribusiness company, the world’s largest meat processing company, Australia’s largest landholding company, as well as a dozen of Australia’s’ most prominent and prestigious Top 200 ASX-listed companies. It was an amazing effort attracting such prestige clients to a firm that doesn’t even have a dedicated tax team and who plays almost exclusively in the small business end of town. Given that, without exception, every one of those companies have since disengaged from BDO and engaged other service providers to prepare their R&D claims, it would suggest that those companies were engaging with BDO to access Tracey Murray’s skill and knowledge rather than being attracted to the BDO branding.
In terms of your second question, anyone with a basic business degree would understand that new product design and development is more often than not a crucial factor in the survival of a company. In an industry that is changing fast, firms must continually revise their design and range of products. This is necessary due to continuous technology change and development as well as other competitors and the changing preference of customers. Without an R&D program, firms will fail to achieve/maintain a competitive advantage and eventually go into receivership. Imagine if Apple had stuck with its initial release of Apple I in the 70’s? Or simply ‘waited out’ those rocky sales in the 90s? Without R&D it would never have invented Macintosh, Power Macs, iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc
Hope that helps!
Dear Mrs T,
Tracey was a free-rider who 1. simply captured growth of R&D tax market share across Australia and 2. got her clients addicted to her particular brand of BS. On top of this, she “stole” clients from her previous employer to set up shop with a backyard accounting firm which at the time lauded itself as an Australian firm before people cottoned on to the fact that BDO should stop denying its global heritage.
With the ongoing nonsense at BDO Brisbane over the previous 5 years it is not unreasonable that clients feel unsettled with BDO and go elsewhere. You’ve made a flawed assumption that clients were attracted to Tracey’s skills and knowledge. If we, for a moment, use your flawed argument that clients were attracted to Tracey’s skills and knowledge, have those clients stayed with Tracey or have they moved on to other service providers?
So again, the question is, what particular clients did Tracey and other R&D directors bring in?
You’ve spoken about the benefits of an R&D product for BDO. R&D at BDO Australia was a joke in the first instance. It did not do any real R&D and was not in any way innovative – all it did was ball and chain itself to smarter, more efficient, and more innovative divisions at BDO as well as cut and paste information from other firms.
Clients were dragged down and burdened with seventh generation deadweight spin rather than profitable tax solutions.
Tsk tsk if you’re blaming receivership on lack of R&D and lack of competitive advantage you might as well go home and watch Home & Away. The fantasies on this show are a lot more tenable.
Yours Truly
I put forward that if Tracey Murray, Tony Schiffman, or any other director at BDO seek to use the Firm Spy website to manage their reputation that they do so in writing and clearly stating their name. This is after all a forum for public debate.
If they wish to clarify an issue, they should queue up like the rest of us.
If you contact BDO at all, or attach any significance to positional power, you lose your role as an independent website and take on role of referee of comments that appear on firm spy. Quite simply, you’re reinforcing old attitudes as well as opening Firm Spy to firm politics.
I suspect/hope Greg T, oh Deary Deary me and The Rent boy are the same person ( judging by the writing style). If not, there are a lot of very warped, inarticulate people employed in accounting firms
Your hopes are dashed. Moreover, I note that your capacity to successfully copy even the simple things is absent.
“I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy… I just have a lot of feelings.”
In all seriousness – let’s all just take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard my fellow keyboard warriors. ‘Tis the season, so let’s just be jolly!
@ Crazy People. I post only under one name. You know nothing about me. I am not even an accountant, as your latest post suggests. As for my writing style, I fail to see the requisite degree of correlation between my own writing style and the writing style of others on this website to conclude we are the same person. In short, you are making assertions about things you know nothing about.
Perhaps the problem rests with your inability to see that BDO may not have a particularly large number of fans.
Thank you Mean Girl for give me some prespective.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, hoping it is filled with happiness, generosity, love, family and smiles!
Snoopy was certain that this was the end. When the Baron cried out, “Merry Christmas, my friend!”
Mrs T
You an imposter la!
Wish you weren’t so boring wa!
Round and round ya abuse goes.
Over boys bent in rows.
Singing Tra la la la la la Maaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!
“Whenever I get gloomy with the state of the world, I think about the arrivals gate at Heathrow Airport. General opinion’s starting to make out that we live in a world of hatred and greed, but I don’t see that. It seems to me that love is everywhere. Often it’s not particularly dignified or newsworthy, but it’s always there – fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, husbands and wives, boyfriends, girlfriends, old friends. When the planes hit the Twin Towers, as far as I know none of the phone calls from the people on board were messages of hate or revenge – they were all messages of love. If you look for it, I’ve got a sneaky feeling you’ll find that love actually is all around.”
Bless you Love Actually for we all know that the little pink BDO pigs went to market….attempted to take every other pig’s food…..then went squealing weee weeee weeee all the way to the milk bar to let their dear sucklings grow so that they could all oink oink oink at the rest of the world.
Excuse me, I will take a leave of absence to get a hand job.
You’re not an animal
You dicky bird at least I’m eating.
Every partner, director and manager at BDO should sit through a psychiatric evaluation.