[This one goes out to the dozens of ex-AAR staffers we wrote about in this post]
For the last month, the world has watched with wonderment as the demise of Charlie Sheen has slowly, shockingly unfolded. The actor that brought us Hollywood classics like Apocalypse Now and Young Guns has been exposed by a frenzied media as possessing the full spectrum of vices in his private life. His professional career is over.
But the true extent of Sheen’s catastrophic fall goes further than the few young porn starlets with whom he lives; it extends to the people and projects around him. Two & A Half Men, as we know it, is over. Sheen wont be back. Heck, the show will probably have to change its name. Charlie was sacked on Monday after this outburst of poetry:
I’ve got magic. I’ve got poetry in my fingertips. Most of the time — and this includes naps — I’m an F-18, bro. And I will destroy you in the air. I will deploy my ordinance to the ground.
With that arrogant sentiment, potential name-change and sacking in mind, let’s move to the focus of today’s post — the removal yesterday of Michael Robinson’s profile from the AAR website. It used to be accessible here and identified that he joined the firm in 1960, was made partner in 1968, and was Chairman of the firm for many years. Mr Robinson’s great uncle, Sir Arthur Robinson (1872 – 1945), was actually the founder of the firm and the “Robinson” in Allens Arthur Robinson. But the lineal connection between firm founder Sir Robinson and the Allens Arthur Robinson of today appears officially at an end. Yes, it seems that either the firm or Mr Robinson has decided that it is time to part ways, 51 years after the relationship began. Now, a search of the AAR website for Robinson’s name yields no mention of the person to whom the firm owes its name. The image below is what you will find if you search for Michael Robinson’s profile:

However, if you check the Google cache you can see what was formerly on the site.
Strangely, the Aconex website which profiles director Michael Robinson as an “AAR consultant” is, as yet, unchanged. Robinson’s departure comes after several weeks of speculation by us that he was entangled in an alleged conflict of interest arising from his alleged use of an AAR email address in the performance of his duties as an Aconex director. We have been forwarded the following email which appears to suggest this to be the case (draw your own conclusions though; we are just reading something that has been forwarded to us):
Now, we’re not so sure this evidences any obvious conflict – Robinson is a recipient, not a sender, and it’s marked for his attention at Allens – presumably not an uncommon practice to copy in an external adviser on shareholder correspondence. But it does appear to show that he was seen by corporate officers as an AAR representative, rather than a company director.
There was some great discussion of these and related points in the comments to last week’s post. Keep them coming! We don’t think it’s our place to express any conclusions of law — what facts we know are incomplete, their authenticity is open to question, and a lot depends (as commenters noted) on whether Aconex can be said to have given fully informed consent to the potential conflict.
However, we note the words of Brennan CJ, Gaudron, McHugh and Gummow JJ in Maguire v Makaronis (1997) 188 CLR 449. In that case, the appellants were partners in a law firm which advised the respondent in a property transaction while providing bridging finance as mortgagee over the same property:
[I]f the appellants were to escape the stigma of an adverse finding of breach of fiduciary duty, with consequent remedies, it was for them to show, by way of defence, informed consent by the respondents to the appellants’ acting, in relation to the Mortgage, with a divided loyalty. What is required for a fully informed consent is a question of fact in all the circumstances of each case and there is no precise formula which will determine in all cases if fully informed consent has been given. The circumstances of the case may include (as they would have here) the importance of obtaining independent and skilled advice from a third party. On no footing could it be maintained that the appellants had taken the necessary steps of this nature to answer the charge of breach of fiduciary duty
Was there divided loyalty here? On the one hand, Robinson (and Allens) didn’t have as immediate a financial interest as a mortgagee over property the subject of his advice — he wasn’t, for example, a shareholder in the company (that we know of). But there appears to us to be competing duties that weren’t always aligned or clearly delineated: to the Allens partnership (or corporate services vehicle), to advise the company, to act as a director in the interests of the company as a whole. Is this enough?
Importantly, Maguire is authority for the proposition that once a prima facie division of loyalty can be demonstrated, the onus shifts to the defendant fiduciary to justify the apparent conflict. Did Aconex obtain “fully informed consent”? We have neither seen nor heard of the existence of independent legal advice. There’s also no evidence that we have seen that Aconex knew to what extent Robinson’s correspondence and company documents would be accessible by Allens personnel (if it was accessible, which is a question of fact we can’t answer). Instead, there appears to us to have been passive acquiescence by Aconex over a long period of time and a progressive blurring of the lines. We will leave drawing the ultimate conclusion, however, to the courts.
The real interest lies in the potential remedies available against Allens if a breach of duty is found. Boardman v Phipps [1967] 2 AC 46 is the leading authority. It opens up the full arsenal of proprietary remedies to claimants against solicitors held in breach of duty — including an account of profits and a constructive trust over the relevant property. (Allens Arthur Aconex?) If clients start waving disgorgement remedies in front of conflicted Top Tier partners, perhaps lawyers would take their fiduciary duties more seriously.
With Allens, one occasionally gets the impression — described by some commentators as “arrogance” — that:
“It’s a polygamy story…All my guy friends are gonna like throw tomatoes at me. It’s like an organic union of the hearts. … That’s how I roll. And if it’s too gnarly for people, then buh-bye.”
And with that chapter now closed, we thought it appropriate to read from the book of the Malibu Messiah:
I beg you all to stay glued for this raving wise, Gibson shredding napalm poet before you. Alone and unshackeld as the despreate cries of the soon forgotten echo freely in my lair.
And glued you will stay! We understand several other AAR stars are also in the “lair”, with complaints having been made against various AAR actors to:
- the Legal Services Commissioner of Victoria;
- the Legal Services Commissioner of NSW;
- the Legal Services Commissioner of QLD;
- the Legal Services of WA;
- ASIC.
Your free gold-class ticket to the premiere of AARpocalypse Now can be found at www.firmspy.com. The question is do you like the smell of napalm in the morning?
Send the Firm Spy your news and views!


Loading...









Strange that AAR took this step without any official statement about why they have removed him from their profiles.
It was Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now.
Other than that, I have no concerns.
Incorrect- Apocalypse Now was Charlie Sheen’s second ever appearance on the silver screen.
Incredible story firm spy. I still can’t believe major news media isn’t covering this
The picture is from Platoon presumably.
You forgot the Doors and the theme music to the movie. May also apply for AAR?
‘This the end…’
Before anyone sheds a tear for Allens over this, remember that at the earliest possible opportunity last year, Allens partners reminded staff when it was freezing pay and making staff redundant that the need to preserve partner pay is justifiable because of the business risks they face as partners. I am getting some satisfaction in seeing that risk brought to bear.
Imagine, if those same partners are disgorged of their mansions and convertibles that our blood, sweat and tears bought them, they might even get away with cancelling the 2011 Christmas party!
Seems this story may be gathering pace. As a subscriber to crikey website the daily email of the top stories are delivered each day wound lunchtime. In the email headed it references the headlines of the top stories including one today which read ‘conflict call at Allans Arthur Robinson’ but then no actual story. I also couldn’t find anythingon their website. Anyone else noticed this?
It is a sad thing that the demise of such a distinguished veteran of Allens, who has given most of his life to his career, has been handled in such a way by his own firm – a scrubbing from (what is these days) the firm’s nameboard without a word. With the announcement of it left to an online gossip site, goodness me?
Shame, shame AAR to disown him in such a way when his chips are down. Surely it could have been spun as a face-saving ‘retirement’?
So AllensGate is for real.
Astonshing.
So AllensGate is for real.
Astonishing.
Sorry… This is the only thing bugging me in this article: Charlie Sheen wasn’t in Apocalypse Now… That was his dad, President Josiah Bartlett… Check imdb if you don’t agree!
Otherwise, great job on this story, FirmSpy!
all ye who question the all-powerful, all-knowing Firm Spy -Charlie Sheen’s:
First film appearance, an extra in Francis Ford Coppola’s “Apocalypse Now” starring his father, Martin Sheen
http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/175644|0/Charlie-Sheen/
@Casey and @Crikey
It’s a story in itself that the mainstream media is not covering this. Maybe they are scared of AAR? Or maybe they owe favours to AAR if (hypothetically) AAR have been backgrounding them for years on their client matters. How else can it be explained?? The apparent summary dismissal, without explanation, of someone as senior as Michael Robinson would normally be in the papers within 24 hours as a major story.
Surprising that Crikey would be scared off by AAR and AAR would never stoop to bother
background Crikey. So what happened to “Conflict Call at AAR”? I phoned and asked someone at Crikey this afternoon and they said the story “needed to be rewritten”.
Hmmm.
Wait, wasn’t Martin Sheen that guy who starred in Hot Shots?
Anon @9.42pm – you are way off!
Allens faked the moon landings. It’s the only plausible explanation for why this hasn’t hit the mainstream media yet. If Allens can fake the moon landings, it could easily take out Australia’s entire fourth estate. There’s a real fear out there.
Others on here understate the risk of an Allens collapse. This is the first potential conflict of interest in Allens’ history and in fact the legal industry generally. This is entirely unprecedented. For all we know, every partner and employee might have their face melt off like they’d just taken Charlie Sheen. Actually, that’s probably the most likely outcome.
FS, in case you are not aware, my experience of the way Aconex emails work is this:
- someone using the Aconex system sends you an email (say it is sent to your aar.com.au email address).
- you then receive, at your aar.com.au email address, a short email saying that you have received an email transmittal, together with a link to the aconex website where that email is stored
- you click the link, your web browser opens and you are taken to the aconex website where you are asked to enter your login and password, before you can read the email transmittal.
So whilst it may appear from the document you have received that Robinson received an email at his aar.com.au email address, the contents of the email you have reproduced in this article is unlikely to be stored on Allens email server as the document could only be accessed through a web browser after logging in with an aconex username and password.
My employer uses aconex. Other than that, i have no affiliation or links to allens (thank goodness) nor to Robinson.
Just saw that Professor Ian Ramsey was quoted on Crikey saying that Robinson has no conflict of interest, although maybe he was just saying that email use in and of itself is not a conflict of interest. That seems to be what he is saying, but Crikey imply that he is putting Robinson in the clear.
Interesting, Crikey did not get any answers why Robinson’s profile has been removed.
They are also alleging that the Premier Ted Baillieu is behind it all, although they don’t really make the connection very clear.
@ Conspiracies Abound
Name a big conflict of interest allegation against a major law firm that has gone on for years like this one and/or when it flared up was not resolved very quickly? I can’t think of one as big as what is alleged here. Can you?
@Davo, good post. Maybe there is an ‘information barrier’ after all? Would not cover emails sent direct to the email account.
The use of an email does carry with it the implication that the user is part of the organization supplying the email and that he or she is using it in that capacity. Hard to get around that one…
Why does Aconex still have Robinson listed as a consultant to Allens on Aconex’s website two days after Allens have removed him from theirs? That is very odd. Is he or isn’t he?
I was disappointed with the Crikey article. It’s main source was FirmSpy. It did not shed any new light on what FirmSpy has already reported.
They got no comment from AAR. No comment from Robinson. The comment from the Uni Prof was about email use generally, not the specifics of this case. The comment from Aconex pointed the finger at an employee, and said Robinson had ‘integrity’ but did explain the conflict of interest issues. The Premier got a run in the story too. Pretty weak effort after three weeks of work since FirmSpy first posted on this issue.
@Crikey
People who need a Marketing VP to make public statements about their “integrity” are usually in very serious trouble indeed.
You have to feel sorry for Robinson. He has been shot down by his own firm and fed to the online news/gossip blogs like FirmSpy and Crikey.
@Play Doh
It’s as if Aconex did not get the memo about it. Wait, maybe they took away his Allens email address too so he hasn’t been able to tell them yet.
@ Marketing
Not just integrity, “utmost integrity”. Things must be really bad to for marketing to feel the need to add “utmost”.
If you read Ramsey’s comments in the Crikey article they’re not limited to “email use”. He says he “doesn’t see any conflict of interest in Robinson’s behaviour”. The only way he could have made the comments he did is after being told that Robinson’s firm was advising Aconex. Ergo, he doesn’t have a problem with it. That’s confirmed by Ramsey saying Robinson has not personally benefited. Can we move on from the hysteria, which is really pretty embarrassing to watch.
The apparent willingness of partners to serve as officers (and thus to take on the role of fiduciary) on boards of clients still amazes. I seem to recall ARH (or more precisely, AAH) has form in this regard and have had their fingers burnt before – not necessarily in terms of conflict of interest but certainly in terms of diversion of partner time giving evidence in lengthy civil actions. AAH spent the early/mid nineties dealing with litigation arising from the Powles affair and Austotel. (I am almost certain there was another signficant matter, but it has slipped my mind). A couple of years ago they had to deal with the fall out from the James Hardie offshoring of asbestos liability. I imagine they will survive this as well. I am interested in what Aconex will do to the way power is exercised within the firm. The Powles affair “made” those partners who saved the firm, including people like Jim Dwyer, Tim L’Estrange and Philip Kerr, who wielded enormous influence over the direction of the firm for most of the 90s and a considerable part of the 00s. The influence of the “saviours” has been on the wane for some time, reflecting the fact that most of them have either left or have entered the twilight of their careers (but also reflecting the fact that the AAH/ARH merger meant that Sydney ceased to be the only office, even if it continues to be the centre of the universe). I wonder whether a new cadre of “saviours” will emerge as the power brokers of the next decade.
@ Phil Ateley
Your mention of Jim Dwyer’s role in saving the firm.from Powles is an interesting piece of history. There may be some irony in the ‘Robinson Affair’ given Dwyer’s role with Powles. As I recall from any earlier FS post – MAJOR SH*T GOING DOWN – FS alleges a misconduct complaint has been lodged with the Law Institute of NSW against Dwyer, relating to Dwyer’s alleged role in the Robinson Affair.
@ Phil Atley
Robinson was not a partner while a director. He was only a consultant to Allens, although he does allegedly use Allens email and have an office at Allens. Based on the Transmittal reproduced above, Aconex seemed to think he was more an Allens legal adviser than a director, or maybe an Allens representative director. But maybe the fact that he was no longer a partner of Allens counts in his favour? It is not clear what kind of role he had at Allens as a ‘consultant’. His strict legal duties to Allens would surely have to be less as a ‘consultant’ than as a partner. It is an interesting question whether conflict of interest extends beyond strict legal duties to loyalty. After 50=odd years and being the ex-Chairman of Allens, one can expect he had lots of loyalty and informal connections to Allens. I don’t know whether that would be taken into account or whether he could say, ‘I was just a mere consultant who happened to use email and an office’ but I was quite independent and owed Allens no duties.
The Transmittal above is harder to explain because it indicates the client’s perspective that he was part of Allens. Maybe the one Firmspy has reproduced is not representative of other communications? If the client always referred to him in correspondence as being part of Allens that would be very hard for him or Allens to explain away from a conflict of interest point of view.
It is a very interesting case. It may be a situation where Allens’ conflict was so big for so long that people just got used to it and ignored it or learned to live with it. People naturally get a shock and deny wrongdoing (because they have accepted the situation and tolerated it for so long) when someone points out the obvious problem – that has been there all along.
@ Phil Ateley
Thank you for the background.
Who would the “cadre of saviours” be these days at Allens? Removing Robinson’s profile and thus publicly disowning him without a word to explain does not strike me as the behaviour of “saviours”. It is inept because the vacuum is filled by gossip.
Going onCrikey yesterday, Aconex is backing Robinson even though Allens have disowned him. But as some other posters have pointed out, Aconex still thinks Robinson remains a consultant to Allens and say so on their website. Why would Aconex still be saying that? Maybe he really is but Allens just don’t want to admit it?
Pure speculation, but maybe the reason there has been no statement by Allens or Robinson about his removal is that they are engaged in a behind-the-scenes legal battle over his dismissal and responsibility for some of the goings-on at Aconex?
@ Anon
Ramsey is saying he doesn’t see any problems in the behaviour of email use, as I read it. What other behaviour has the Professor endorsed? Being a rep of a law firm on the board of a client is a prime facie conflict of interest. Just using law firm email is not.
Explain how the Professor could opine that being a law firm rep on the board of a client is not a conflict situation? Bet you cannot do so.
Just got forwarded the Crikey article. For me the most interesting part is Professor Ian Ramsey’s statement that Michael Robinson had “not personally benefited” in any way from the arrangement.
Has Robinson been unpaid by Aconex as director? Are other non-executive directors unpaid too? That would be strange for a company of Aconex’s size.
Has he been unpaid by Allens too? Or does Robinson get the Allens office for free as payment in lieu?
Maybe Ramsey is just saying he is not personally benefiting from use of his Allens email? But the way Crikey have written it implies Ramsey is saying more. If all Ramsey did was say something about email, then Crikey are misleading their readers.
@Crikey
You’re misreading the article. Ramsey couldn’t have been asked a question about email use without being told Robinson’s firm was legal adviser to Aconex. Crikey says that his position is he doesn’t see a conflict of interest, which must take into account the broader position of Robinson. To limit the question to email use only would be stupid – how on earth can using a particular email address (without any other surrounding circumstances) constitute a conflict of interest? The confirmation of this is that Ramsey then says that Robinson has not personally benefitted from the situation. That could only be relevant in the full context. It could not possibly be relevant if Ramsey was only talking about receiving email at one address rather than another.
You want to know how Ramsey could express the view that this could not be a conflict of interest? Easy. (1) Robinson wasn’t a partner, he did not stand to gain financially from any work that Allens received. (2) There was either express or implied informed consent – are you seriously contending that Aconex didn’t know that he was a consultant with Allens? (3) You have assumed that Robinson was acting as a legal adviser to Aconex. He wasn’t, that was done by other Allens lawyers. When he was acting as a director he arguably did so in a personal capacity. Even if he owed a fiduciary duty to Allens as an employee that duty has limits. Just being an employee (or a director) doesn’t mean that you sign your life away to a firm (or company).
Ian Ramsey is a respected academic who studies this stuff for a living. I’d take his word for it. But you can keep seeing whatever you want to see.
Believe it or not this situation has come up before (see the chairman of FAI while also its legal adviser). Was his firm sued? Nope. Was he struck off? Nope. HIH was a case where if there was ever going to be a problem with this type of situation, proceedings would have been brought.
@ Anon
I think it is you who has misread the Crikey article. It says:
**
Professor Ian Ramsay, a corporate governance expert at the University of Melbourne, says he doesn’t see any conflict of interest in Robinson’s behaviour.
“I can’t see a conflict. He could have used a company email address or a personal email address but that just doesn’t look like any kind of conflict,” he told Crikey. “He’s not personally benefiting in some way. I don’t see this as a significant issue based on the information provided.”
**
The only comment he makes is about email use. Ergo, this is what he must be referring to in the introductory word “behaviour”. He also refers to “this….issue”, i.e. email.
He also limits his opinion by saying “based on the information provided”. We have no idea what information was provided to him. Do you trust Crikey’s integrity to disclose all the relevant issue to the Professor? I did not think so. Crikey is a disreputable publication and Crikey have done with you what very often do to their readers – mislead by misusing a quote out of context.
You have got the wrong end of the stick on a few of other points too:
1. There is conflict because Robinson represented Allens as a consultant and sat on the board of the client. It makes no difference whether he was a partner or not. There would be a conflict if a junior lawyer sat on the board of a client.
2. Informed consent is different issue. It is a way of managing a conflict that exists. Informed consent requires independent legal advice for the consent to be effective. It cannot, as you suggest, be implied because they knew he was from Allens. Of course they knew he was from Allens. They say so in their own documents. It is worth adding that, to be effective, an informed consent needs to be re-obtained each time a new issue arises of conflict, e.g. questioning negligent advice, or challenging a bill. There is no such thing as carte-blanche informed consent. Exactly the same principles apply to trustees and beneficiaries.
3. Whether Robinson himself was acting as a legal adviser to the client is irrelevant.
As stated above, I don’t know the answer to the question whether the conflict in this case is heightened by his 50 year association to Allens, or whether a court would only look at his strict legal duties to Allens.
Many lawyers and firms are lucky and do get away with this client conflict of being on a board of a client because nobody challenges it or because nothing happened with the relationship and the advice to cause any harm. Then it is a case of wrong done, but no damage to complain of that was caused by the wrong. I don’t know the facts in the FAI case.
There is no conflict in being a lawyer on a board and providing advice – provided your own firm is not also advising the same company.
On the issue of whether loyalties beyond strict legal duties can create a conflict of interest, the answer is: most definitely. Judges often recuse themselves if a close friend is a party or a key witness. 50 years with same firm and former Senior Partner would create loyalties and associations that would be more significant source of conflict of interest than what was written down in a consulting agreement.
Someone ought to phone or email the marketing VP at Aconex and ask him why Aconex is still ‘marketing’ on its website that Robinson is a consultant to Allens. It’s a bit misleading isn’t it? Robinson may have the ‘utmost integrity’ but the same can’t be said of the marketing VP.
@ McNamara’s Equity
We’ll just have to differ on our interpretations as to the Crikey article. I’ve set out my thoughts above and I think they speak for themselves. Without going into it again, Crikey must have at least outlined to Ramsey the basic facts ie. lawyer from firm sitting on board of company, lawyer’s firm is the legal adviser to the company. Ramsey’s statements have to be read in that context.
In relation to the other specific points you raise:
1.Partnership does matter because partners have an equity stake in the financial success of the firm. A consultant does not. This is relevant to any alleged breach of the no profit rule and is what Ramsey seems to be referring to.
2.Without wanting to get involved in a legal debate, consent can be implied – see Jacobson J’s decision in the Citigroup case at [295] where he says “consent need not be given expressly; it may be implied in all the circumstances” (citing authorities). In that case, the Judge noted that if it was necessary to consider the issue of informed consent (which it ultimately wasn’t) informed consent could be implied from the principal’s knowledge of the structure and method of the fiduciary’s operations (at [355]). Whether you need to re-obtain consent depends on the issue that arises. If the issue is within the terms of the original consent (like rendering month to month bills) it is unlikely you would need to re-obtain consent. If it is an unusual situation like negligent advice you probably would have to re-obtain consent. Also conceptually informed consent is different to managing the conflict – informed consent is a way of avoiding the conflict altogether in a legal sense (at least to the extent the consent applies).
3. The reference to Robinson being a legal adviser was in response to Crikey’s request to explain how being a “law firm rep” on a board was not a conflict. I was pointing out that he wasn’t necessarily a representative of Allens when acting as a director which may be relevant to any suggestion that there was a conflict of duty as an employee of Allens and as a director of Aconex.
I should also have clarified that FAI is arguably a more extreme version of this situation – founding partner of a law firm acting as chairman of the board of a company while his law firm advises the company. Even if there was no damage caused, it would have been possible to obtain an account of profits if a breach was established. Given the responsibilities of a liquidator, you would have expected the liquidator of HIH (which bought FAI) to bring such a claim if it was even arguable.
@Anon
It is too silly a comment to even respond to for you to suggest that Crikey must have given the Professor all the relevant facts before he gave his legal opinion to be quoted.
What makes you think that?
Crikey stands for scandal and sensation. Other people cover news. Crikey wants people to open emails, or they will their subscription lapse.
Anything Crikey can do – by hook or crook – to make a story sensational, they will do. It’s how they operate.
Here they have sensation – the Premier and his family are getting some mud thrown, Allens have disowned Michael Robinson by deleting him, but the law Professor is backing him. It wouldn’t be as good a story if the Professor said he was a goner too. It’s all part of the Punch and Judy show. Crikey told the Professor enough to get that quote, no more or less.
In other lawfirm speak “consultant” is another way of saying we no longer wish to pay you as a partner, but we don’t want to completely cut you loose and put you out to pasture…
I for one won’t be surprised if it comes out shortly that Robinson is paid little/nothing at all and he is consultant in name…
Come on AAR firm spies… How many active matters is Michael Robinson listed as responsible for in the AAR time recording/accounting system?
@Anon
What Crikey told Professor Ramsay is speculation. You don’t know and neither do I. I am much more skeptical about Crikey than you it seems. Crikey is not a serious news business and has a poor reputation for accuracy. As every barrister knows, with the brief goes the advice. Since we don’t know what was in the ‘brief’ to Professor Ramsay, not much weight can be put on the advice quoted by Crikey. I am not even sure he has got it right, as quoted, about the use of Allens email being fine. If Robinson was transmitting confidential board emails onto Allens servers that could cause issues unless there were information barriers in place at Allens, as was discussed in another post.
1. Partnership accentuates the conflict, definitely, but it is not necessary for there to be a conflict (e.g, as I said before, a junior solicitor would also have a conflict). It is not all about gain for the fiduciary. The conflict can cause loss to the beneficiary even if the fiduciary has gained nothing. The beneficiary still has a remedy that sounds in damages against the fiduciary if the fiduciary causes loss.
2. The Citigroup case is a poor authority as it related to investment banks and turned on interpretation of the Corporations Act relating to investment banks and the very specific terms of that engagement letter. There is no authority as far as I am aware for the proposition that a the consent of a client can be implied to a solicitor having a conflict of interest by the mere fact that the conflict was known. Solicitors have strict professional obligations to act in the best interests of their client. Conflicts must be avoided. Where they cannot possibly be avoided they must be managed very carefully. “Very carefully” does not include saying, “But the client knew, your Honour”, i.e. disclosure is not enough. It is worth noting that it is not just Robinson who may have had a conflict in this matter with this client. Allens had a separate conflict possibly arising from having Robinson on the board of their client. Indeed on the ‘facts’ as stated on Firmspy both Robinson and Allens have had acute conflicts of interest for several years. Once a conflict is made out, the onus shifts onto the fiduciary to show how the conflict was managed to protect the client’s interests. This is where informed consent comes in. If the client obtained independent advice on the situation, including the processes and controls to manage the conflict acceptably and agreed to continue, the fiduciary could be in the clear. Unless, as you say, there is an instance of negligent advice in which case the conflict becomes very extreme and, at the very least, new more thorough informed consent needs to be obtained. In almost all cases of seriously alleged negligent advice with significant consequences, it would be improper to continue.
3. In the document cited in this post by Firmspy Robinson is stated to be a representative of Allens. If this is the usual way of describing him by the client it would become the presumption that this is what the client thought. Especially so in the circumstances that the client also describes him as ‘a consultant to’ Allens on their website. Presumably he was a consultant to Allens, because that was also how Allens described him until they took his profile down a few days ago.
You are referring to Geoffrey Cohen? Didn’t he get criminally charged for something, misleading investors at the AGM? What were the circumstances of his law firm providing advice? How big was his law firm? If he was a sole practitioner there is no issue in providing advice.
The headline of the Crikey article is the giveaway. It says “Allens Arthur Robinson v. The Baillieus”.
I thought, wow. Then as I read through the article looking for the legal action they were referring to, all I found were links to a one-man blog in England, an old very confusing judgment (skimmed it twice, still couldn’t understand what it was about), a Herald Sun story from four years ago about another matter and FirmSpy. Got to the end and they quote some vital stats on Allens. That’s it? There was no AAR v. Baillieus. I wasted 10 minutes of my life hunting for it in the links.
You can’t trust what Crikey says. Once in a while they get onto some really good gossip and report it but there is a lot of tosh to wade through for that one time.
Re Geoffrey Cohen, I should have said if he is providing legal advice in his capacity as a director, there’s no problem.
@ Anon #2
I agree. I suspect all he has been “paid” is free use of his office and free use of some shared services such as secretary, phones, computer, printing, email, etc. But that and his recently removed title would still make him part of Allens and remunerated by them.
@ McNamara’s Equity
I share your skepticism in relation to Crikey. But is there really any factual information they could have given to Ian Ramsey? When you strip out all the hyperbole, the only real relevant facts here are: lawyer sits on board of large company; lawyer’s firm advises company; lawyer receives emails from company on firm system. I have difficulty believing Crikey could stuff even that up. Plus Crikey’s incentive is to create a conflict of interest in this situation. A headline like “Large law firm in major conflict of interest” is a lot more interesting than “Large law firm engages in not so great corporate governance techniques, but no legal breach”.
Again in relation to the specific points:
1. The partnership point is relevant to the question whether there is a breach of the no profit rule (leaving aside the no conflict rule). A junior lawyer does not have equity so it is unlikely he or she would breach the no profit rule in circumstances where his or her firm provided legal services to the company.
2. I think you’ve mischaracterised these parts of the Citigroup case. The Corporations Act issue was in a different part of the case (ie the specific duty to manage conflicts that is applied to financial services licensees). The parts of Jacobson J’s judgment I referred to are specifically in relation to a fiduciary duty in equity. They (and the cases cited by him which are also in relation to fiduciary duties generally) apply in the context of a solicitor just as much as they apply in the context of an investment bank. Also the terms of the mandate letter are irrelevant to this issue. When Jacobson J decided this issue he did so expressly on the basis that his findings in relation to that letter were wrong.
Also in relation to implied consent, we’re not talking only about a situation here where the company merely knew about Robinson’s position; this is a situation where he was appointed in the knowledge that he was a consultant with Allens; Allens were appointed in the knowledge that he was on the board; and the company quite happily let that situation go for years both reappointing him and continuing to instruct Allens. That’s pretty close to a slam-dunk implied consent case. Finally, you don’t necessarily need independent advice for informed consent. It might have been necessary in Maguire given that unsophisticated punters were involved (eg both gave evidence through an interpreter), but it wasn’t necessary in Citigroup. It would be difficult to say that a large public company like Aconex was unsophisticated in the sense that the Makaronis’ were.
3. I don’t think this logically follows. Just because a non-executive director is described as holding other positions (like consultant with a law firm) doesn’t mean they are acting in those capacities as a board member. Robinson is also described as being on the board of Clough, does that mean he was also a representative of Clough when acting as an Aconex board member? Similarly for other Aconex board members who are described as having roles with other organisations.
In relation to FAI, I’m not referring to Geoffrey Cohen. I was referring to John Landerer. His firm definitely wasn’t a sole practitioner’s shop. The advice wasn’t provided by him, it was provided by one of his partners. As far as I know, Landerer is presently happily living in a huge house in Vaucluse without an adverse finding against him.
In regards to Crikey, you are clutching at straws. We just don’t know what they told the Professor. In regards to you saying Crikey “could not stuff this up”, Crikey are notoriously devious with quoting people. I have heard of several instances of people who have been quoted on Crikey complain bitterly about selective editing. This practice is an example of why Crikey is not taken seriously, other than for a bit of fun. In regards to headlines, they got the best headline they could possibly hope for “Big Law Blue Chip Firm vs. Premier of Victoria” etc? The headline “Big Conflict of Interest at Blue Chip Law Firm” is dead boring by comparison.
1. Breach of the no profit rule is not the test as to whether there is a conflict of interest, so I am not sure why you keep mentioning it.
2. I may need to have a closer look at the Citigroup case, thank you for pointing out that I may have missed something.
3. You are wrong to say that consent to a fiduciary acting in conflict can be implied by knowledge. If it were so, mere disclosure of a conflict of interest would excuse the fiduciary. All the cases say otherwise. There is no “slam dunk” as you put it. I agree with you, however, that what is “informed” consent might vary depending on circumstances and people involved. However, I disagree with your reference to the parties in the Citigroup case. Solicitors and company directors are held to much higher standards. At a minimum, something in writing. It becomes tricky, and this is where independent advice is usually necessary, because who is to draft and settle the document to evidence consent to be executed other than an independent solicitor? For example i don’t believe an email from all the other directors saying “we understand you have a conflict of interest and we accept the situation” would be enough. Because the other directors as lay people do not understand the issues sufficiently. And who is to suggest the terms of such an email? Hence it becomes impossible without an independent solicitor. These sort of consent documents are very common in conflict situations. They leave everyone covered. Unless of course some serious cause for complaint arises, in which case the whole situation needs to be reconsidered.
3. Have a look at the “Transmittal” document above. Robinson is described as representing his firm. Other directors are described as representing “Aconex” or “Francisco Partners” which must be the Private Equity investor. It does not get any clearer than this that the client believed Robinson was a representative of his firm on their board.
I don’t know about John Landerer or what he did. I would be interested to hear. Many solicitors have “got away with it” acting in conflict, including some of the big firms with people on boards of big companies (I won’t mention names). It all comes down to whether somebody is prepared to make an issue of it. Many times, nobody does. The solicitors involved should count themselves lucky to have made an escape. It usually comes down to whether someone has a genuine grievance that can be alleged against the solicitor. Then the conflict of interest can be used against the conflicted solicitor to deadly effect as legal spear. It is not clear to me what alleged grievance is driving the issue with Robinson and Allens and their client, except some vague reference to “negligent advice” and a recent EGM.
Professor Ramsey sure got people talking on FS with his “Crikey Opinion”! Crikey used to have a some integrity when Stephen Mayne ran it, but the new owners seem to want to make it a scandalous. How did they get someone as respected as Professor Ramsey to talk to them? I bet he didn’t. They probably sent him an email asking is it OK for a company director to use his email from his other business which happens to be a law firm? Would that be a breach of his directors’ duties. Then he replied with the quote they have used but they packaged it so it made it look like he had endorsed the whole conflict of interest situation. Only Crikey or Professor Ramsey know the answer.
Changing topics, didn’t Michael Robinson get Allens in when he was Chairman of Tabcorp? Ooops.
The other comment to make is that
- FirmSpy is read by most of the Australian legal community because people can’t resist its funny blend of news and gossip about the legal community
- Knowing this, Allens management have allowed Michael Robinson to twist in the wind and be held to ridicule for having his profile deleted by them. Crikey’s 5,000? subscribers got shown his deleted profile. Yet in all this time they have not said or done anything to explain the situation or give him a face-saving way out.
It would seem things must be really really bad between Allens and Michael Robinson for them to do this to him. As a couple of other posters have said, it’s sad and does not reflect well on Allens as a firm. They are treating him as if he has already been found guilty.
I think you have all got it wrong about the Crikey article. Forget about the scattergun rehash of old links and the weak attempt to implicate whoever Crikey can think of with a possible connection, however remote. There’s some nuggets in the Crikey article that make it worthwhile.
They got Allens to say they “won’t respond to anonymous claims out of cyberspace” in relation to the deletion of Michael Robinson’s profile from Allens own website. That is pure gold.
They noted that Aconex still list Michael Robinson as a consultant to Allens and got a quote that fully backs him. Nobody has told Aconex of his demotion by Allens. Crikey showed how ridiculous the situation has become
They got Law Professor Ian Ramsey to go public with his support for Michael Robinson. I agree with posters who have said it is more than email being referred to.
@Anon and @McNamara’s Equity
Fascinating legal debate. Regarding the discussion of the “no profit” rule, the two of you are focusing on the wrong target. Allens has as big or bigger conflict as Michael Robinson, and they get paid plenty, so the “no profit” rule may apply to remedies against Allens.
About email use and information barriers, does anyone know if it has been alleged that it was Michael Robinson’s practice to talk about Aconex business with people at Allens and pass on information and emails, even when Allens were not briefed in some active matter?
@ Anon Posted March 12, 2011 at 3:14 PM
I looked up Citigroup and Jacobson J’s dictum at paragraph 295 “consent may be implied in all the circumstances” and the authorities he cites. None of it helps anyone here. A firm of solicitors being represented on the board of a client, or a representative of a firm of solicitors being a director of the client, creates an extreme and ongoing conflict between two fiduciary roles: that of director of the company and solicitor to the company. There are no fiduciaries who are held to higher standards, both by the common law and by statute, than directors and solicitors. The issues are complex. Managing the conflict would require special care, e.g. abstention from being involved as a director on issues which his firm is providing legal advice, getting bills taxed, review processes, and many other points. It would all need to be documented, formally agreed to and monitored. I presume that something must have put in place by Allens when Robinson joined the board. A Deed or Charter that clearly identified the conflict, the issues it created, and sets out how it would all be managed for both Allens and Robinson to avoid or manage the problem of “divided loyalty” that is inherent in a director/solicitor duty clash. It would be very strange indeed if nothing was done, e.g. how could Robinson possibly have been allowed to be involved in the briefing or the questioning of the legal advice or the bills of his own firm, and at the same time be expected to fulfill his separate duties as a director? If this document was carefully drafted, independently reviewed and executed by the parties, and adhered to, it should go a long way to absolving, or absolve altogether, Allens and Robinson from the allegations of conflict. Although it would no help in the case of negligent advice or other wrongdoing, which are separate issues but which would of course create a new conflict of interest in itself.
This post together with the Crikey article has sure generated some higher-than-usual quality legal discussion. I don’t remember Crikey ever getting this much exposure before either.
I have a confession, every time I look at the photo at the top of the story of the grim faced man with a machine gun and read the caption “Allens removing profiles yesterday” I burst out laughing, f*** FirmSpy eds can be funny sometimes!
@McNamara’s equity
The authorities cited by Jacobson J (and Citigroup itself) stand for the proposition that informed consent need not be express, but may instead be implied. As you noted above, mere knowledge is not sufficient in this regard. However, as I noted in my earlier post, where knowledge is coupled with a course of conduct that indicates consent to the situation (in this case reappointment of Robinson together with providing Allens with instructions on a continuing basis) it is likely that informed consent would be made out. While as you note, courts are quite vigilant in respect of solicitors (although less so in relation to directors) there is no reason to think that the general principles as to consent are not applicable to them. If you look at the Beach Petroleum case (at [467] and [477]) the NSW CA appeared to accept that implied informed consent to a breach of fiduciary duty was available in the context of a claim against solicitors (in that case Abbott Tout) (See also Bristol v Mothew referred to in that case which is again a case involving implied consent to breach by a solicitor).
I don’t think that it would be necessary, and am unaware of any case that requires, that informed consent be documented in writing in order to be effective, what is important is that there is some form of “consent”. A requirement that consent be given in writing would be antithetical to the traditional equitable maxim that equity regards substance rather than form and, given that fiduciary duties are of course equitable in nature, would be difficult to imagine. Of course, at an evidentiary level, it would have been advisable to document the consent to avoid any argument as to whether it was given, but lack of a formal record doesn’t affect the validity of the consent.
In terms of the measures put in place to deal with the conflict, “management” of the conflict is really a sideline issue as it doesn’t affect whether there is a breach of fiduciary duty. The law doesn’t recognise management of a conflict as an appropriate response to a breach of fiduciary duty. The only valid responses to a breach of fiduciary duty are informed consent or ratification (although informed consent isn’t strictly a defence as it occurs before a breach and therefore avoids the breach). This point about management of a conflict is made either in one of the English cases dealing with conflicts and solicitors or perhaps Ipp J’s decision in the MSJ v KPMG case. (A lot of the fascination with management of conflicts seems to have grown out of the obligation to manage conflicts placed on financial services licensees under the Corps Act). What this means is that while often clients will require that measures be put in place to manage the conflict (eg Chinese Walls and the like), if they don’t form part of the informed consent, the consent is nonetheless valid.
To my mind, all of this suggests that even if there otherwise would have been a breach of fiduciary duty, there was informed consent. In terms of the suggested breach itself, I have yet to see a clear articulation of what constituted the breach by either Allens or Robinson ie. was it a breach of the no profit rule (and how)? Was it a breach of the no conflict rule and, if so, was it a conflict of duty and duty (and in respect of what duties) or was it a conflict of interest and duty (and what duty and what interest)?
Reading through all the comments, few of which could easily be from senior members of the legal profession, it is quite unbelievable to me that this story was posted four days ago and Allens have allowed the debate about the deletion of Michael Robinson’s profile to run wild on FirmSpy and and be reported by Crikey without a word of clarification. The removal of a biography of someone with 50-odd years history and whose name is part of the firm is no small thing to do
There are two possible explanations
- (most likely) he and Allens have parted ways, if so why not come out and say it?
- (conspiracy theory?) he is still at Allens in some capacity, but Allens don’t want to admit it
The latter scenario would beggar belief because then Allens are engaging in a form of deception removing his biography to make it look like he has gone when he hasn’t
@ Anon
You are dogged advocate, old boy, I will give you that. Let me explain why you are wrong.
First, any formal documentation was entered into when Robinson joined the board would need to be considered carefully, and may excuse Allens and Robinson altogether. You are right that management per se is not enough. But you misinterpret my use of the word “manage” (poor choice of word by me). If you read my comments carefully, especially the examples, you will see what I actually mean is avoid or minimize to negligible.
However, let’s assume there was no formal documentation adopted. There is no doubt at all that Jacobsen J’s dictum is correct – consent can be implied by knowledge and a course of conduct. But it all depends on the circumstances. Here’s where your argument runs of the rails. Almost all of the Deeds of Consent I have seen executed to protect fiduciaries acting in conflict, and indeed most of the cases, including the ones you cite relate to one specific event or transaction. The situation with Robinson and Allens as alleged has been ongoing since early 2006. There is chronic conflict, in all sorts of different circumstances and situations, over more than five years. Allens (which if the Transmittal above is representative, would include Robinson) owe strict fiduciary and statutory duties to their client as solicitors. Separately, Robinson owes fiduciary and statutory duties to the company as a director. What consent could implied? By your argument, consent could be implied to any and every breach of fiduciary duties that may have occurred over the five years. Robinson could be involved, in his capacity as director, either alone, with other directors, or as part of a board, in a discussion: whether to pay a bill or challenge it, whether to engage other solicitors instead, giving instructions to Allens, giving guidance as what level of resourcing should be applied by Allens to a matter (i.e. a budget), to pass on information to Allens about the client that might be helpful Allens although not part of any current brief, deciding whether or not to challenge advice received, deciding whether the client may have an action against Allens, and so on. By your argument the fact that the client knew and recognized (e.g. in their “Transmittal”), and accepted by conduct, Robinson was representing his firm on the board meant that Robinson and Allens could do what they wanted, just as if the conflict did not exist, or perhaps that consent was “re-implied” each time, to every new conflict situation that arose along the way. Do you see the impossibility of your contention? An old saying at The Bar is the very best advocates “can make bricks without straw”, i.e. win a case that can’t be won. Not even such an advocate could argue consent could be implied to five years of conflict, in a series of different situations, just because the client had knowledge of the conflict and accepted it by conduct in each new situation that arose. “Acceptance by conduct” is no more than saying that there was a failure to do anything about, or that the client has thus far failed to seek a remedy.
The no profit rule relates to remedies rather than causes of action. A cause of action can exist against a fiduciary for acting with a conflict of interest even if the fiduciary has not made a profit e.g. beneficiary may still have suffered loss or have equitable remedies. As someone above helpfully pointed out, there may be separate actions against Allens and Robinson. So the “no profit” rule may be applicable to remedies against Allens, if as suggested it turns out Robinson has been providing services to Allens and the client without charge.
Putting aside specific claims of negligence advice to the client which are a separate issue, this case (if there is one, because as yet the facts are not at all clear) will turn on the documentation or conflict avoidance principles agreed when Robinson started as a director of the client and whether this was adhered to.
@ online
Good conspiracy theory but in same category as faking Moon landings. Separating Robinson is decisive and taking charge. Allens is the winner and has a simple story to tell. There’s probably some legal wrangling going on which is why they have not made a statement. Taking his lawyer profile down and allowing him to “hide” in Allens would make Allens look worse than ridiculous. They would set themselves up for an absurd “Where’s Willy?” drama.
@Anon 3
Agreed. Except it is “Where’s Wally?”
I think it’s a story in itself that Allens two media people, Jason Silverii and Chris Fogarty have decided to let FirmSpy and Crikey be the ones to publicize the website move. Given all their own people read FirmSpy, as well as their competitors, and the media pack chew through Crikey, it seems they can’t think of anything to say and have decided to let the cards fall where they lie. The Crikey story should be particularly troubling because it will introduce a whole lot of non-lawyers to FirmSpy, some of them Allens clients. Why even take the profile down if they could not explain why they did it. As for the ‘Where’s Wally?’ scenario, big law firms can be stupid but not that stupid. It would look devious which is not how a big law firm can afford to look.
I’m surprised that Jason Silverii and Chris Fogarty, Allens two media guys, decided the best strategy was to take the profile down and say nothing. Why take it down at all if they are not ready to say why? The Crikey article is a worry because, feeble as it was, it will get a lot of non-lawyers looking at FirmSpy which is prominent as Crikey’s main source with click through links. How Silverii and Fogarty could think it is a winning strategy to let their staff, competitors, clients and the media pack inform themselves this way about Michael Robinson’s profile deletion, while Allens say nothing, is hard to comprehend.
Interestingly his profile is back up on the website with a few text changes
http://www.aar.com.au/experts/cv.asp?ID=michaelrobinson&where=aar&search=true
I work at Allens in Melbourne
- there has been no internal communication to staff about the removal of his profile from the website, but everyone has been talking about it after seeing it in the FS article
- I havent seen him for a while, but his office has not been cleared out (was in to do some work on weekend)
- he is still on the system, same profile is still on the Allens intranet, don’t know why this would be – pretty strange if you ask me
He is regarded within Allens as a force to be reckoned with but is not well liked.
@ McNamara’s Equity
I think you are mischaracterising what I was saying when you say that the effect of implied consent is that “consent could be implied to any and every breach of fiduciary duty that may have occurred over the five years”. I have been fairly careful at a number of points to note that in order for the consent to be effective, it would be necessary for the alleged breach to fall within the scope of the consent. That doesn’t mean that every breach over five years will be avoided, but it does mean that those breaches within the scope of the consent will be avoided.
Obviously this is going to be a matter of construing the terms of the consent that has been impliedly given, but that is the sort of task that courts do on a daily basis. What does seem apparent is that the scope of the consent would at least embrace Allens acting for the company and those actions that would have been ordinarily incidental to that relationship. Consent to that state of affairs can at least be implied from the fact that the company has continued to instruct Allens over the five year period. Therefore the consent would include things like Allens rendering month-to-month bills but, as I think we both agree, would not include if the board was required to consider circumstances out of the ordinary such as negligent advice. In the posts I have seen so far, there doesn’t appear to be any conduct that would be outside the ordinary course of a solicitor client relationship, other than a vague initial assertion that there may be negligent advice which has not been supported since.
You say that there was five years of conflicts in a series of different situations, but I don’t think that is right. There was a situation which persisted for five years in which the same factual circumstance existed: an employee of a law firm sat on the board of a company to which his employer provided legal advice. Any consent that was provided covered that situation because the basic factual circumstance never differed (at least on the basis of the facts as known). The difficulty with your argument is that you are treating any change of factual circumstance as a new conflict regardless of whether the change took the situation outside the scope of the consent. With respect, that is the wrong way to approach the question. The focus should not be on whether factual differences exist, but instead on the terms of the consent that was impliedly given and whether the factual circumstance fell within the terms of that consent.
You seem to accept that implied informed consent can exist in relation to a single transaction. However, the difficulty with the position you have put forward is that it would mean that implied informed consent could never exist (whether in relation to a single transaction or a string of transactions). Even within a single transaction there would always be a slight factual difference in relation to each step of the transaction. The fact that courts have indicated on more than one occasion that implied informed consent does exist indicates that this position can’t be correct.
In respect of the no profit rule, again I have to disagree. There are two traditional fiduciary duties: the duty to not gain an unauthorised profit by reason of your position as a fiduciary (the no profit rule) and the duty to not place oneself in a position where any duty owed to the principal conflicts with either a personal interest or a duty owed to another person (the no conflict rule). If you believe Finn J, these are the only two fiduciary duties. Both are substantive rules and not simply related to remedies. A breach of either will found a cause of action. I don’t disagree that you can breach a fiduciary duty without making a profit, but in order to do so you would have to breach the no conflict rule. As I said before, no-one has been able to clearly articulate what the breach is in this case by reference to these two duties.
@Anon
My friend, you are making a valiant attempt to make some of those bricks I mentioned before, but it is doomed to fail.
What you are suggesting in relation to an implied consent is this:
1. The client unequivocally knew that Robinson represented his firm because they say so in their “Transmittal” (assuming it is representative)
2. Therefore Allens and Robinson no longer were bound by their separate solicitor and director fiduciary duties to the extent that they conflicted – whatever happened after that.
This is absurd. It amounts to a carte-blanche exemption from some very serious and often conflicting legal duties. A court would never accept it. It would lead to unacceptable results and free Robinson and Allens up to run havoc at the client if they chose to do so, with Allens feeding on the advantage of having their man in there as a director.
The reality is circumstances do change markedly in companies over time. They do big transactions. They get taken over. They engage in litigation. The list on the stock exchange. They engage new solicitors. They change the business they are in. They have regulatory problems. Shareholders and directors come and go. Etc. Each of these situations creates new and different issues regarding conflict of interest. It is inconceivable that a general implied consent could carry a solicitor/director through all these different situations over a period of time. An implied consent is a kind of emergency fix for a court when the equities demand it, not something to cover a whole and varied course of dealing.
In Robinson’s and Allens’ case, assuming nothing formal was put in place, I believe the simple answer of a court will be: there was no consent to anything, let alone five years of conduct. Why should it be implied that lay directors (were there lawyers on the board?) who did not even understand what a fiduciary duty was or what a conflict of interest was could impliedly consent to loss of important rights for the company just because they knew Robinson represented Allens? It is all about the equities of the situation, not some hard-and-fast rule. Robinson and Allens are the more experienced and knowledgeable ones in this situation and a court would most certainly say they should have brought the problem up and explained the need for an independent solicitor and a Deed of Consent or Governance Charter or some such thing. If Robinson and Allens did not bring this up, how could they turn to a court now and say ‘but they knew he was representing us as his firm of solicitors, so we relied on implied consent’. Can you see how hopeless the argument gets? All the equities run the wrong way. The other directors most probably did not know what to do and say on this kind of issue – other than what they were told to do by Robinson and Allens. You will see in the cases where consent is ruled to have been implied there is a far more even keel of equities between the parties for a court to play with.
You mention “no profit rule” again, it seems to be a favourite of yours. Just as it happens, I don’t believe Finn J on this one, I prefer an even simpler model of fiduciary duties: avoid conflicts of interest. I see the “no profit rule” as an extension of the requirement to avoid conflicts. The very act of earning an unauthorized profit puts the fiduciary in conflict. This is why I say the profit earned relates to remedy not wrong. There is support for this approach amongst many judges in the United States and the courts here will catch up in the end, it’s a much neater way to think about things. But it is just a way of thinking about things – a mental framework – it makes no difference to the result. I would still advise a barrister to plead “no profit” as an action, of course, rather than just rely on conflict. No harm in throwing it up and judges expect to see it there as one of the claims in a fiduciary case.
My former associate only showed me FirmSpy a short time ago. At first I thought it was rubbish, but it’s damn good fun following cases like this one – I do wonder what will happen next. They need to do something about the spellchecker though.
As a FirmSpy regular, just wanted to say that this is one of the most interesting comment threads I have ever seen on FirmSpy
@fmc
Your comment cracks me up – the Tuxedo comment was so nailed it, you had to say the same thing again in a slightly different way.
I agree with the comments (judgment?!) of McNamara’s Equity. Isn’t the obvious point about implied consent “and the equities of the situation” that if when Michael Robinson joined the board of Aconex, Allens were acting for Aconex then Allens had a fiduciary duty as solicitors to Aconex to explain the conflict of interest created and the steps that Aconex needed to take in these circumstances, e.g. documented informed consent and board processes to avoid issues that might otherwise arise?
This is a big call, but I think this is the best FirmSpy thread yet. It has it all and this morning everyone at work even the partners were talking about it. Big bow down to FirmSpy for breaking this incredible story.
I haven’t read the discussion, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else’s comment but who the f… at Allens woke up one day and said
“I’ve got a really good idea guys! Let’s remove the profile of our longest-serving and best-known lawyer off our website like poof! gone!… and…listen to this bit guys…WE SAY NOTHING…this way there’ll be a frenzy of speculation at FirmSpy…and maybe Crikey will cover it too….We get our online audience profile up, appeal to graduates, and create some new Google links!!! Whaddtya think??? Am I brilliant or what?!!”
Somebody at Allens did wake up and do this.
@ McNamara’s Equity
I think we have reached an impasse in relation to informed consent where we are repeating things already said. Five short points:
1. Again, I think you are mischaracterising what I say. I am not saying that Allens or Robinson had informed consent to engage in any and all breaches of fiduciary duty. The scope of the informed consent is a matter of fact, but in this case extends to the maintenance of a solicitor client relationship and the actions ordinarily incidental to that relationship. That would obviously not cover if, for example, Robinson or Allens decided to steal from Aconex.
2. I don’t rely on the “transmittal” document to show knowledge as that document is only from January this year. The knowledge is shown at least by Aconex’s description of Robinson on their website. As a side note, I also don’t accept that Robinson was a “representative” of Allens while a board member. The listing of an organisation next to his name on an email doesn’t establish that, particularly in circumstances where other organisations are listed next to other people’s name. Moreover, it would make no commercial sense to have a person on your board representing an entity that was not a financial stakeholder. I suspect you might say that the listing of the name is an indication of what Aconex thought (which I don’t think necessarily follows), but the difficulty is that Aconex’s subjective view doesn’t establish a legal relationship. If I were to convince someone I was a representative of BHP, that doesn’t establish that fact merely because they might believe it.
3. I agree that circumstances change over time, that is why the proper analytical approach is to start by defining the scope of the informed consent. From that base it is then possible to determine if the factual changes took circumstances outside the scope of the consent.
4. The fact that no formal document evidencing consent was not executed (assuming that there was no such document) doesn’t prevent informed consent from arising. As I noted before, there is no requirement that informed consent should be in writing. Similarly, governance procedures are not necessary for informed consent to be effective.
5. I think you are overestimating the extent to which a court would treat the directors as “babes in the woods”. The members of the board are sophisticated individuals with strong commercial backgrounds. It wouldn’t take much to convince a court that they understood the general nature of a conflict of interest.
In relation to the “no profit” point. Four short points:
1. Australian courts recognise the no profit rule as a substantive rule of law. To do away with it would overturn well over 100 years of authorities.
2. While there will often be an overlap between the “no profit rule” and the “no conflict rule”, they each have an independent scope of operation. Most obviously, the no profit rule deals with situations where courts have recognised that there is a breach of fiduciary duty, but there is no conflict of interest. For example, a Keech v Sandford / Boardman v Phipps situation where a fiduciary takes up an opportunity his or her principal is incapable of taking up.
3. I am very doubtful that Australian courts are going to move towards a US model of fiduciary duties. The Americans have a fundamentally different approach to fiduciary duties, and equitable principles generally, that relies on an extreme version of the fusion fallacy. For this reason Australian courts rarely, if ever, refer to US decisions in relation to fiduciary principles.
4. I think it is dangerous to dismiss Finn J’s views so easily. He is certainly the most respected commentator in relation to fiduciary principles in Australia, and perhaps the common law world. He literally and figuratively wrote the book on fiduciary obligations.
Even if this situation is analysed from the point of view of the no conflict rule, I still haven’t seen an articulation of the breach eg a conflict in what duties (and who the duties were owed to)? a conflict between what interest and what duty?
@ A lawyer
The fiduciary duty you have suggested could not exist in Australian law. It is a prescriptive duty. Australian law recognises only proscriptive duties (Breen v Williams).
@Anon
Almost everything is wrong with your post but let’s pick on one point prescriptive/proscriptive. It is the proscriptive duty that is breached by Allens allowing Robinson to go in as director representing them if there was no informed consent. Advising to get consent would merely be a way of avoiding breach of duty.
Reading your other comments, you have misunderstood McNamara’s Equity’s comments about when consent can be implied. I agree with McE there is no chance whatsoever court would imply consent in this matter. What excuse could Allens and Robinson have for not getting formal consent?
I
@Anon
I’m not the same poster as McNamara’s Equity
All you have done is repeat the same points that have previously been comprehensively dismissed in prior argument. They are not worth discussing again. There is no equitable reason why consent would be implied if it were not properly documented.
You misunderstood the comments about no profit rule. It was said to be a mental model that avoiding conflict could be at the centre of fiduciary duty, not that this was settled law in Australia.
You have also misunderstood the difference between prescriptive and proscriptive. As dot dot dot explained, the latter would apply to Allens advising while their man Robinson was on the board. As for whether he was ‘their man’ these are the facts as stated
- 50+ years with Allens
- former senior partner of Allens
- stated to be ‘a consultant to Allens’ on client website and Allens website
- office at Allens
- stated to represent Allens by client on Transmittal
- Uses Allens email as a client director
All of this together makes it inescapable he could be regarded as being “Allens” on the client board.
…but if you look at what A Lawyer posted it was AAR had a fiduciary duty to explain to the directors. Sounds pretty prescriptive to me…
@ Not my fight
Dude, you have missed the point. Allens, and Robinson as their consultant, had a proscriptive duty to avoid conflicts of interest with Aconex. Robinson being appointed to the board of the client Aconex created a conflict for Allens and Robinson. They had a duty to avoid this conflict e.g.
- don’t do it, or
- get fully informed consent (which would likely include steps to a avoid issues that would
arise over time)
As has already been pointed out, if Allens failed to get fully informed consent, it would not be open for them to argue now that they just assumed they could create the conflict. Creating and continuing with the conflict was a breach of their proscriptive duty.
I’ve seen a lot of discussion of the “no profit rule”, and it would have to apply to Allens here if they have earned profits with the client once Robinson was became director.
If the allegations FirmSpy were true, journalists would be swarming over this, it would probably be front page news of the business section “Major Law firm in conflict scandal”. The fact that this has not happened means there is probably a simple explanation, e.g. fully informed consent.
I suspect it is going to come out that when MR joined the board there was new documentation entered into and that: identified the AAR/MR conflict, obtained consent for the AAR/MR conflict, and ‘managed’ the AAR/MR conflict away in the future.
@Anon
1. Where do you draw the line between ‘stealing’ and billing too much/doing unnecessary work/etc? Or for separate breaches of directors’ dutites?
2. Robinson was a consultant to Allens, isn’t that enough right with the other factors?
3, 4. and 5. Why should anything be implied now to help Allens/Robinson, who were Aconex’s solicitors then, if it were not properly documented by Allens/Robinson at the time?
The original FS post was a week ago. He’s still gone from Allens, so it was no mistake. He’s still up on Aconex, so they are not accepting what Allens have done. Quite bizarre that Allens would play it this way.
Below is the comment I made last time ten days. There is quite a bit more in this new post, including the Transmittal naming him as part of Allens and, the email use. It is starting to get past the point of mere allegation.
++++++++++++++
Having been involved in the law for 25 years, I comment on this fascinating story
1. So far, it is all just allegations and stories. An astonishing read, but nothing more. Hard evidence is missing from the story. Allens and people named are owed the benefit of the doubt in the meantime and can be presumed to have done the right thing until evidence emerges to the contrary
having said this…
2. In my experience, Allens are notable for a level of arrogance well above other big firms
3. I have had direct experience several times of Allens’ arrogance extending into a certain bullishness on conflict of interest and seeing them taking positions on the issue that other firms would not. Just because they can get away with it because…well, just because they are Allens.
4. If the (unconfirmed) reports are substantially true, this may be a case of a coming unstuck from too much arrogance. It may then become a case of Allens getting what has been coming to them for a while. If so, there will not be much sympathy from other firms.
Dot dot dot, you’ve got it twisted. You seem to be treating getting informed consent as part of the duty when it’s not. If this isn’t what you’re saying then how can having a duty to explain something not be prescriptive.
But don’t worry it’s a rookie mistake so I’ll forgive you.
I remember the two people from Aconex at the centre of this, Leigh Jasper and Rob Phillpot. They both were at Scotch College as boarders. Leigh was a goodie-goodie who has apparently got into fundamental religion. Rob was a different case altogether
@ Not my fight
The duty is to avoid the conflict – that’s proscriptive. Doing something to avoid the conflict – explaining the need for an independent solicitor and making sure fully informed consent is obtained – is part of fulfilling a proscriptive duty.
There’s a proscriptive duty not to take a client’s money. Depositing a check made out to cash belonging to the client in the client’s trust account is part of that duty. By your argument depositing in client’s account rather than your own is prescriptive.
You really need to complete Year 10 Legal Studies before being allowed to post on FS – this point has been explained 3-4 times and people are still getting it wrong.
dot dot dash those are all very nice thoughts but unfortunately not what we lawyers like to refer to as “the law”. You understand that a proscriptive duty is a negative obligation right? That means you can’t make someone do something positive to comply with it. That’s part of the reason why getting informed consent isn’t part of the duty, it’s something that sits apart from it.
Oh, legal studies isn’t taught at year 10 level.
One post and not a single thing right. I give you a 10 out of 100 (at least you got your name right). Looks like someone’s going to Equity summer school…
@ Not my fight
You are either trolling (deliberately posting silly statements to encourage other posters to respond) or not terribly bright and probably incapable of completing Legal Studies.
The proscriptive fiduciary duty on Allens and Robinson their consultant is to avoid conflicts of interest. This means do not go and allow Robinson or someone from Allens to be appointed the board of the client because that creates an immediate and acute conflict between director’s duties and solicitor’s duties – it breaches the proscriptive duty. End of story. Except that the law recognizes in some cases such as this that, if fully informed consent overseen by an independent solicitor is obtained by Allens and Robinson, there be no breach and/or no remedy for the client.
Separate from any fiduciary duties, there is a common law duty to provide advice that is reasonably competent when retained by a client and asked for advice. If Allens and Robinson provided advice on his board appointment or any documentation surrounding it that did not properly deal with the issue of the conflict of interest, there may be a claim in tort against Allens separate from any fiduciary claim.
“You understand that a proscriptive duty is a negative obligation right? That means you can’t make someone do something positive to comply with it.”
I think dot dot dash is merely pointing out that the doing of a positive act can result in the discharge of a proscriptive duty, which is not only correct but obviously correct in the case of conflicts. Hence all this talk about seeking and receiving informed consent to act where a conflict exists.
This really isn’t – or at least ought not be – a difficult concept. People are getting confused because it is normal to say “[Solicitor A] has a fiduciary duty to do [X]” when strictly speaking they should say “[Solicitor A] can avoid breaching her fiduciary duty if she does [X]“.
Can we please drop the (literally) undergraduate references to Year 10 legal studies now?
This is one of the strangest stories about legal firms I have ever read. Putting an old timer out to pasture is not strange. I have not seen enough to know whether there is any basis to the conflict of interest allegations – as several people have noted, fully informed consent may have been documented. What is strange is that Allens would do it without a short public statement to explain what they have done and why. The website is signifier of Allens’ face to the world. One minute he is there, the next gone. Why? What has changed?
@ You say proscriptive, I say prescriptive
Well explained, except being strict you should say “the doing of a positive act can avoid breach [rather than be discharge of] of a proscriptive duty” – as you do say in the example you give.
In this case, Allens had a duty to avoid the conflict of having Robinson on the client board but they could have avoided breach of that duty if they obtained fully informed consent from their client, which consent would likely have included documenting how the conflicts arising between solictor and director would be avoided on an ongoing basis.
I know Professor Ramsey from several professional dealings. He is cautious and careful in his views, which is one of the reasons that he is so highly regarded. The most important words in his quoted opinion are
“…based on the information provided”
You cannot read more into what he says than the limiter of those words. Because the information provided is not specified, readers should take his “opinion” with a big grain of salt.
MR’s bio is still on the Allens intranet so it seems he is now some kind of Secret Consultant
The photo is from Platoon. The story reminds me of Sergeant Barnes “You talking about killing? Hmm? Y’all experts? Y’all know about killing? I’d like to hear about it, potheads.”
Could not resist this one from Kurtz in A Now
“You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment!”
MARTIN SHEEN.
To that pedant earlier: yes, Charlie Sheen was an extra in Apocalypse Now, but clearly the article mistakes him for his father Martin Sheen. It says:
“the actor that brought us Hollywood classics like Apocalypse Now”
Obviously the author of the article thought Charlie was the lead actor. An extra doesn’t “bring us a Hollywood classic”.
His profile has been put back up on Allens website. Allens must have decided that any staff member who can pull an 80+ response thread to a FirmSpy story about his profile deletion deserves another go.
So Michael Robinson has been at Allens 50+ years and has been employed as a Consultant since retiring as Chairman and Senior Partner before that and still has his office at Allens? I find it hard to believe that anyone could suggest his loyalties were not with Allens.
If he goes on the board of a company, I can’t see the problem. The company gets the benefit of his vast legal experience and his contacts.
But I don’t see how anyone can suggest that Allens could be the legal advisers to the company he is on the board of. Allens have a duty and loyalty to Michael Robinson as their consultant with 50+ years standing. This gets in the way of their duty the client as its solicitors. What if Michael Robinson’s conduct as a director is an issue – as it sometimes is for directors – how can Allens advise the company? They can’t. As a bigger issue, they also should not let their client have the problem of a director with a loyalty to them that clashes with his directors’ duties. This would cause all sorts of problems for Allens and the company.
Reading through the debate, it seems to have been overcomplicated with suggestion of implied consents and proscriptive/prescriptive nonsense. There’s nothing to debate, from Allens fiduciary duty point of view the situation described is wrong – period – unless it has all been managed very carefully so that Michael Robinson has been nowhere to be seen in discussions about Allens or their legal advice or its consequences and invoicing. If he has been, I don’t see what the defence could be.
What excuse for this situation has been offered by Allens? It looks like a blatant conflict to have their consultant on the board of a client.